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Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 09:47:17 EDT

From: Robert Cowan <[email protected]>

Re: David Irving - Skeptic or Historian?[*]

To: [email protected]

In a message dated 6/30/99 7:15:17 AM Pacific Daylight Time,[email protected] writes:

IN GERMANY, where Holocaust denial is a crime, Irving has been convicted and fined for his views.

JUST OUT of morbid curiousity, was Irving convicted for public speaking in Germany, or for books written outside of Germany finding their way into the Federal Republic? The latter would make me very uncomfortable ... freedom of speech in this country might be severely curtailed if saying or writing something here violated the law somewhere else, and you could be held accountable for it.

Of course, the libel suit in British court might be another example of the same problem if Ms. Lipstadt is an American (I don't see that it gives any nationalities in the article).

Can anyone explain (in short, simple words please) how the laws of other countries might affect the words of US citizens in the US? I guess to keep it in the context of this List, we should narrow that question down to "as it pertains to the history of WWII?"

Bob Cowan


[*] New York Times article on Lipstadt Case, June 26, 1999 | Auschwitz Index | current AR-Online

This message was forwarded to David Irving by a correspondent, and DAVID IRVING wrote on Saturday, July 3, 1999 to Dr Cowan as follows:

CaricatureDear Dr Cowan:

I did not see the original exchanges leading up to your reply of July 1, in which you ask very pertinently:

"Just out of morbid curiosity, was Irving convicted for public speaking in Germany, or for books written outside of Germany finding their way into the Federal Republic?"

The fact is that on April 21, 1990, I addressed an audience in Munich and stated the following words:

"Wir wissen jetzt inzwischen, das brauche ich hier nur als Fussnotiz zu erwähnen, dass es nie Gaskammern in Auschwitz gegeben hat." Weiterhin führten Sie folgendes aus: "Wir glauben inzwischen, dass genauso wie die Gaskammer, die die Amerikaner hier errichtet haben in Dachau in den ersten Nachkriegstagen eine Attrappe war, so sind die Gaskammeranlagen, die man jetzt als Tourist in Auschwitz sehen kann, von den Behörden in Polen nach dem 2. Weltkrieg errichtet worden. ... Denn die deutschen Steuerzahler haben ja eine runde 16 Milliarden Deutsch Mark als Strafe für Auschwitz zahlen müssen ... für eine Attrappe."

[Thus the text from the Indictment. Note the ellipses ... for sentences, or entire passages, left out.]

In subsequent trials in Munich I was fined DM 7,000, increased in May 1992 to DM 10,000, increased in January 1993 to DM 30,000 (around $22,000), for uttering these remarks. In those trials I was not allowed by the court to present any evidence in defense, or to call the then director of the Auschwitz State Museum Franciszek Piper to confirm that what I stated was true, namely that the gas chambers shown to tourists in Auschwitz I (as opposed to Birkenau) were in fact built by the Polish authorities in 1948 (as is confirmed by Prof. Robert Jan Van Pelt in his book "Auschwitz, 1270 to the Present". When the court rejected our application to call such evidence, both my defense attorneys walked out, an action since confirmed by their law associations as having been quite proper.

At risk of boring you, and it is possible you have no interest whatever in this, I draw attention to the dossier on my rapidly expanding website on which I have posted documents relating to this ugly episode:

http://www.fpp.co.uk/docs/index.html

You might also find the dossier on my libel action against Prof. Deborah Lipstadt of interest:

http://www.fpp.co.uk/Legal/Penguin/index.html

The consequences of this "conviction" in Germany have been serious. Not just that the American Historical Association has refused to take the slightest notice of this oppression, but my opponents (the Lipstadts and their allies) have used my "criminal record" to procure my exclusion from Canada and every other British Commonwealth country, Italy, France, Austria, etc. This has effectively shut me out of the world's archives. I have obtained the records of their secret actions by F o I action and litigation, and I am methodically coding them into HTML for the Website.

When the High Court trial begins, more will be read into open court and thus come into the public domain. They make very unhappy reading. Yehuda Bauer's role is particularly disturbing.

To take up the minor point in your original query: none of my books has ever been banned or censored, worldwide; but France did fine me five hundred pounds in a Paris court after Le Monde published an interview I granted to a French journalist in my London home...!

A happy Fourth of July to you,

David Irving (now writing at Key West, Florida, USA).

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