David Irving telephones Robert A Gutierrez on May 26, 1974. Transcribed from a tape recording.

DAVID IRVING Telephone Log (Continuation Sheet 1)

Date / Time Note on Conversation

26 May 1974 (Sunday)

11. 30 pm Telephoned Mr Robert A. Gutierrez [1945/46 Special Agent, chief of CIC team 970-45 at Stuttgart-Backnang] at his home, Albuquerque (505) 898 2951.

IRVING: David Irving here.

GUTIERREZ: How're you doing, David? [ . . . ] Where are you -- in England?

IRVING: I'm in London, yes. I'm just telephoning to take up the matter that I mentioned in my last letter, to try and map out some kind of traveling plans for the coming weeks. My present plan is that I'm going to be in New York on the fourth and fifth of June, and then in Washington on the sixth and seventh of June, and I was wondering, do you think it would b worth my while to come down and see you that weekend?

GUTIERREZ: I doubt it, I don't have any information for you, you 'ye probably got everything that you need.

IRVING: Did you get my last letter? (Yes.) The one about Frau [Ursula] Göhler, the one where I say that I found Frau Göhler. (Yes.) It's very good of you to say, Not to come, because if I do come it will cost me a lot of money to come all the way from Washington down to Albuqerque again, but the --

GUTIERREZ: I don't have anything that she [Frau Göhler] doesn't have.

IRVING: What you really have is probably information. The kind of information which the Pentagon said that you were at liberty to give me -- the information about where this material will . . . was handed over to, which authority it went to. Because if I am going to start dealing with the Pentagon. which is the reason I'm going to Washington, I'm going to have to be able to tell them all the facts that I can possibly; otherwise they can't start looking, you see.

GUTIERREZ: [Pauses]. Well, last time you were here you had a pretty good run down on what our team did, that's about all we did, we didn't do anything else, we turned over everything that we had to Them, there's nothing...

IRVING: Yes, but who is Them? Which actual unit?

GUTIERREZ: My own unit turned it in at that time and it went to Seventh Army headquarters. Once we turned it over to Seventh Army headquarters we had nothing else to do with it. That's about all I can tell you.

IRVING: Yes. Do you think there would be any reference to this in the records of your unit?

GUTIERREZ: I don't know -- You know a lot of our teams were just dissolved in Europe and the records were turned over to Seventh Army and I don 't know how long they hold those records, whether they destroy them or whether they keep them, I don't know.

IRVING: I think they will have kept them. The question is:

Do you think that your own CIC team, or your own HQ, made some kind of lists of the documents that were being sent back to the United States, so that these lists can be found in the Archives, probably?

DAVID IRVING Telephone Log (Continuation Sheet 2)

Date / Time Note on Conversation

GUTIERREZ: Well, when that material was found the war was just over. The Seventh Army HQ was still a large HQ and they processed everything. Those HQ were still pretty much intact with the personnel that they had used during the war and once we turned that information in we had nothing else to follow up on, all the records went in and when the team was dissolved the records were turned over to them. I don't know where else you could go except to the Seventh Army HQ, if they kept anything, but I don't know how long they keep these things --whether they destroyed them or didn't destroy them [. . . ]

[Then talks about his belief that the British had liaison officers attached to Seventh Army HQ for this purpose.]

IRVING: Do you think that William Conner [sic] the interpreter would be able to give me more detailed information.

GUTIERREZ: Conner left long before I did. He wouldn't have any information that I didn't have, because he was separated and he came back to the States several months before I did.

IRVING: You came back in about February 1946, didn't you?

GUTIERREZ: That's right.

IRVING: The other problem which I can 't understand is why some of this material -- one of the diaries and all the photographic albums [of Eva Braun] turned up in the National Archives but all the rest didn't. It isn't referred to in the records. [ . . . ]

[Gutierrez then repeats he sees no point in my going to see him. I thought a private talk might yield something. He did not.]

GUTIERREZ: Well, my unit was disbanded before I ever left Europe. I was attached to the SHAEF HQ [then] for several months before I left. Everything that we got was turned in to Seventh Army HQ. [ . . . ] They had a very large Intelligence team. [ . . . ] And I know that when we brought most of that stuff in, that we actually requested an Inventory and they went through an inventory [i.e. the documents] and I don 't know whether you 'ye gotten hold of that inventory, but they brought special people to go through it and inventory all the material, that was obtained, and they inventoried .. it was official, but once we turned them [the documents] in and they brought in their own personnel -- they [Seventh Army HQ had trained personnel at that time that understood the importance of the documents and so forth -- and once we turned those materials over to them [Seventh Army] we had nothing to do with them. We were given to understand that most of that material would wind up in the National Archives, but we also had the understanding that anything of that nature was always coordinated with the British and I am surprised that there is no record [in Britain].

DAVID IRVING Telephone Log (Continuation Sheet 3)

Date / Time Note on Conversation

IRVING: Yes, and what can you precisely remember of the records that your unit took that would interest me? As I understand it they were the actual bundles of correspondence between Hitler and Eva Braun, on the one hand, and also the diaries written by Eva Braun throughout the whole period, and also her photographic albums, and things like the trousers that Hitler was wearing at the time of the Bomb Plot and thing like that. (Yes.) Is my information correct there?

GUTIERREZ: Yes.

IRVING: You're not aware of anything else there.

GUTIERREZ: No. [ . . . ]

IRVING: And when was this inventory made? Was that about February 1946?

GUTIERREZ: Oh no, no. That material was probably… I'd say, six months before that. It was right after the war, it was within a couple or three months after the end of the war.

IRVING: And the inventory was made at Backnang was it?

GUTIERREZ: No. No. The inventory was made at.. uh Heidelberg. Where the Seventh Army was headquartered. At Heidelberg.

IRVING: I see. So the material was taken to Heidelberg at that time and that was the last you saw of it.

GUTIERREZ: That's right. It was taken to Heidelberg and it was turned over to Seventh Army HQ.

[Ended at] 11.38 pm.

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